Not Getting Lost in the Translation: a Conversation with Anja Jones

Leonie Seysan speaks with European translation and content localisation expert Anja Jones from AJT. An interesting look at the issues involved in creating or adjusting content and marketing material for foreign markets, and the importance of good translation and localisation. Anja shares some funny examples of brand translation fails and common mistakes brands make when entering foreign markets. If you’re extending into foreign markets and translating website copy, Anja has some helpful tips to help you manage the process for the best result.

Transcript

Content with Humans, Episode 2: Not getting lost in Translation

LEONIE:  So welcome to Content with Humans episode two. Today I'm speaking with Anja Jones from AJT Agency, which is an agency that provides culturally nuanced translation services for purpose-driven businesses in the European market. And for a bit of context, Anja and I met online a couple of months back through a fabulous agency-owner networking group called Agencynomics and I was fascinated to discover that Anja's agency specialises in translating and localising website and marketing content.

Hello Anja, thanks so much for joining me for a chat. 

Get to know Anja

ANJA:  Thank you and hello Leonie, lovely to be with you today. 

LEONIE:  Whereabouts in the world are you at the moment? 

ANJA:  So as you said, our company is based in the UK, but I actually live in the south of Portugal.

So it's a beautiful sunny morning today, we've got about 30 degrees Celsius coming up, so I'm very excited, very happy right now. 

LEONIE: I'm currently in New Zealand and it's about 7 o'clock at night here and it's quite cold. So Anja I'd like to start with hearing more about what you do and what type of companies you work with and what languages you work with.

ANJA:  Yes, absolutely. So as you already mentioned, we specialise in European languages and so we essentially support companies and organisations who want to enter or grow their presence in the European marketplace. So typically we work with companies in the UK and in the US for whom English is the first language and they want to translate into European languages.

But we also have some clients in Europe who want to branch out of Germany and France and Austria, for example. But in terms of the businesses we support, it's quite a wide range of businesses across both B2B as well as direct to consumer. So our work it kind of spans everything from skincare and beauty products to children's toys, all the way to quite techy SaaS companies, cyber security, e-commerce and so on.

So we're pretty industry agnostic. There's a few exceptions so we won't work with fossil fuel or gambling, anything that's detrimental to the environment or to humans. We won't work in those areas. Yeah, we're quite industry agnostic. 

LEONIE: Okay, so you must work with quite a few languages… 

ANJA:  Yeah, so we essentially cover all of the European languages. So there's quite a few countries in the EU.

So yeah, I mean, to be honest, predominantly the German, French, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and the Nordics is probably the languages we do most of on a regular basis because I think that's where companies see market potential. But yeah, we cover all of the European languages. 

Content localisation projects 

LEONIE: Okay, and if you can say, what sort of projects are you working on this week and what does a typical project look like? 

ANJA:  I mean, typical projects probably don't exist in our world.

But yeah, I'd love to give you a little bit of a flavour of the things we're working on this week. So there's a few things going on. One is we're doing some SEO keyword research and competitive research for a Nordic B2B brand that's looking to grow in the Dutch market.

So we do that upfront research for them to help them understand the size of the market and explore opportunities in that market before they actually start translation, which is really, really interesting work. Another thing we're doing is a website review for a UK fashion brand this week. And so they've basically got a German website that's been largely machine translated.

And we're coming in and doing quality checks of the translations themselves. But we're also essentially navigating through the website to replicate the customer journey that a German customer might go through, to identify any stumbling blocks that might cause a customer to abandon their cart or prevent them from making a purchase. 

LEONIE: Oh, that's quite a variety.

ANJA:  Yeah, and there's loads of stuff. Like we're doing some educational content that we're translating for the Luxembourgish Government this week, which is really, really exciting because it's professional human translation, nothing to do with AI. And it's really nice topics around nature and sustainability.

So that's really awesome. And then I think one other thing is we do a lot of style guide and glossary creations for clients who are just about to enter into their localisation program. So before they get started, we write a style guide and glossary to make sure that their brand is translated consistently across the different markets.

So yeah, not all translation. 

LEONIE: But it's all tied in though, isn't it? 

ANJA: Yeah, that's it. And I think it illustrates beautifully that if you're a professional translator, it's not just about the words on the page, but it's the whole strategy that fits around you going to a new market, really.

All things B-Corp certification 

LEONIE: So I noticed that you're B-Corp certified and that's quite a trend in the UK, not so much here in Australia at the moment. What was involved in gaining that certification and what motivated you to do that? 

ANJA: Yeah, really good question. So we've always kind of seen ourselves as an ethical translation company and we were celebrating our 10 year anniversary.

So we started in 2010 so in 2020, we were celebrating our 10 year anniversary and we're like, OK, where are we going next? You know, what's next for us? And we have been aware of the B-Corp movement, partially because one of my favourite surf brands down in Cornwall, Finisterre, were B-Corp. So we kind of, it's been in our consciousness. And yeah, so it was something that we were really interested in.

And for those listeners who might not be familiar with B-Corp, it's essentially a framework for businesses who don't want to be just purely driven by profit, but who also want to balance that with looking after people and the planet as well. And it's probably not that, what do you say? It's not that obvious to anyone outside of the translation industry that they're actually, it's not always just a great industry. 

There's some really bad practices in our industry that are really bad, that we don't, we don't agree with. We don't associate with; anything from super long payment terms, really poor rates, bad project management practices. And so we kind of wanted a way to differentiate ourselves from that. And we were looking for a certification, an external certification to show that we're different and that we are who we say we are for our clients, but also for our community of, you know, 300 freelance linguists that we work with.

So that's kind of the background to why we wanted to become a B-Corporation. 

The well-earned Ethical Business Award

LEONIE: So I noticed that you also won the Ethical Business Award last year. 

ANJA: Yeah, absolutely. That was definitely a highlight. So the Ethical Business Award was organised by the UK Association of Translation Companies and they run a conference every year. And last year they decided to put ethics on the map, which I'm so proud that they did that because it's the first time really for our industry that people have put in a conference specifically to talk about ethics in our industry.

And, you know, part of that I'm sure was also fuelled by kind of AI kind of being in all of our minds and, you know, people being impacted by that. So I think it was really timely for them to do that. And it was great because we were able to kind of share our B-Corp story, our journey and, you know, share the things that we do around sustainability and employee well-being.

And so, yeah, that was really great. So we won the Ethical Business Award essentially for our business practices that are around ethics, transparency and just respectful business relationships with our linguists as well. 

LEONIE: Fantastic. Congratulations. That's a huge win, I think, especially if it was the first time that they'd run the award. That's fantastic. So I think last time we spoke you were enjoying a stay at an Italian holiday villa with some of your team members. Is that something that you do often? 

ANJA: Yeah, I'm still digesting all the pizza and pasta that we ate on that trip. Yeah. So really, really interesting question. So I think when we last spoke, we talked about remote culture, right, because you're a fully remote business as well. 

LEONIE: Yes.

ANJA: Yeah. Yeah. And so we actually we used to have an office, a seaside office in the southwest of England before COVID and Brexit. And then when COVID and Brexit kind of came together, we decided to go fully remote. So most of our team is based in the UK. I myself, I'm in Portugal. Our head of translation services, Sarah, she's in France. And one of our project managers, Ginny, is based in Costa Rica. And so we try and come together once a year in a beautiful place, somewhere nice and have a week of co-living and co-working essentially. 

And I think for remote teams, I think it's hugely beneficial to spend some time together in real life, make some memories, enjoy some good food and wine and really build those relationships. 

So we used to do it twice a year. But as part of our B-Corp journey, we set up a Green Committee. So this is an employee led initiative that brings together people from different parts of our company. And the Green Committee said, no, we can't be flying to Europe twice a year. Once a year is enough. We need to reduce our carbon footprint. So we're like, OK. So we went to Italy this year and then we went to Spain last year. So we try and keep it within Europe, keep it affordable. And not everyone joins. I think it's a really it's a personal choice if you want to come and take part. You know, everyone is on different paths in their lives, have different family commitments. So it's not forced on anyone. But it is lovely. And I think for me personally, it's a bit of a perk of running my own company that, you know, we can set up these things and, and create these beautiful memories together. 

LEONIE: Yeah. Good on you for doing it. I think if any of my writers are listening to this, they'll be asking me when we're going to Italy. 

ANJA: I love it. Do you do you guys ever come together in real life like as a whole group? 

LEONIE: We have done. We haven't done it since COVID. We did have a Christmas get together and I've been down to Melbourne to visit a couple of our writers down there. But yeah, we don't do it that often and we really should. But Australia is a big country and we're all over there. 

ANJA: I think that's the thing, you know, you know, from the UK, it takes us two hours to fly to Italy. So it's and it's affordable at the moment. So, you know, it's, it's a different story when your team members are, you know, expanded over such a big area. 

Finding work/life balance

LEONIE: Yeah. So it sounds like you've got the flexible work life sorted. So what do you enjoy doing when you're not working? 

ANJA: Very good question. So I love surfing. So when we moved from England to Portugal, we went from one seaside town to another, which I can't imagine, even though I grew up in East Germany, where there's nowhere near the sea.

But once I moved to England, I was like, I just cannot imagine not living by the sea anymore. So when we decided to move away from the UK, Portugal was just like the perfect the perfect destination. And so we live about half an hour from the West Coast.

So if the surf is on, then we can pop out for a couple of hours and catch some waves, which ties in again to the flexible working and not being having such strict 9 to 5 kind of working, working patterns. So as long as the work gets done, we all have that flexibility to follow our own paths and passions. And other than that, gardening. Weirdly, we've got quite a bit of land around us. So there is fruit trees growing, and I'm trying to keep my indoor plants alive, which I'm really bad at, but I kind of want to build like an indoor jungle, but I'm actually really bad at plant maintenance. So it's definitely a journey for me to get better at that.

LEONIE: So if you like surfing, have you ever been to Australia? 

ANJA: I've not actually. No, it's on my it's on my bucket list. But I've not. I've not even been to New Zealand yet where you are now.

And my husband's family, his uncle lives in New Zealand. So he's been to New Zealand, but I haven't yet. 

The beginning of AJT

LEONIE: Okay. So tell me, how did AJT get started? What inspired you start that business? And what was your journey from deciding to do it to where you are now? 

ANJA: Yeah, so I've always been interested in languages. Some might say it was the only thing I was good at school, but I'm going to, you know, share that as I was always interested in languages. So I'm a German native speaker. And when I moved to the UK, I studied linguistics and French at university. And then as soon as my university was finished, the day of the exam, we packed our bags and we moved to Cornwall. And it was either at that time, it was the choice of going to Cornwall and enjoy surfing or move to London for like a career in languages. And we chose to go to Cornwall and, you know, enjoy a little bit of living. And so I initially worked as an administrator for a sailing association for about three years. But then I was kind of, okay, I really want to get back to languages and do something, you know, make use of all of that knowledge that I've got and work more actively with languages.

So in 2010, I set up as a freelance translator, translating from English into German, just at home from my kitchen table. And it was quite quickly that people would contact me and say, oh, can you also do French? Or could you also do like Italian? And typically in our industry, we translate into our mother tongue, because that's, you know, how you get really high quality translation. So from, you know, even the first six months, I was already working with other freelancers to deliver multilingual projects.

And it kind of just snowballed from there. And then in 2014, we employed our first employee, a German translator in-house. And so, yeah, it's kind of really grown from there. It's been an incredible journey, really. At some point, the team was like 30 people. We're now back to 10. So it's kind of been up and down a little bit. But what I've really loved is just that opportunity to nurture language talent. 

When I first came to the industry, it was like, I couldn't really, I didn't know how much people charged. It's really hard to get your foot in the door. It's really hard to get started. And we kind of have that chicken and egg situation where people will go to university, they'll do a translation degree. And then there's no in-house positions. 

Once you kind of graduate, you're kind of straight onto the freelance market. And that can be really tough.  To get your foot in the door, but also to gain experience in a safe and collaborative environment, right? And learn from more experienced translators. So we've had the opportunity to run translation internships. 

So people from German and French universities would join us for their translation internships as part of their master's degrees. We offered a graduate position. So we would employ graduates straight out of university. And then we also run a graduate translator scheme. So this is for anyone coming straight out of university. We would offer them a six months program where we give them regular work at the slightly lower rate. And in exchange for that, they would get regular feedback on their work. And then after six months, if the quality is there, they would graduate from the scheme. They would join our regular pool of freelance translators. They would get a certificate. They'd move on to a higher rate. 

And that's actually, that scheme is something we won an award for from the Institute of Translation and Interpreting in the UK. So that's something I'm really proud of. And sometimes when you go through your life running a business, as you know, it's not all rainbows and unicorns. You know, there's tough, tough times sometimes, but it's really nice to take a moment to reflect on what you have done during those last 14 years now. 

LEONIE: Yeah, we've had quite a similar journey in a way, because we started in 2009. And similarly, we had a team at one stage of about 30 people, a combination of freelancers and my editor, who's an employee. And we've cut back to about 15 now as well. And we've always been fully remote. And we've always had the focus on quality, but also on flexible work for everyone who works for us, to be able to, as you say, as long as they get the job done. That's the important thing. We don't like the 9 to 5 at all.

ANJA: The thing is, you know, if you implement that, then you have to do it yourself as the owner. And if that doesn't suit you, you know, you shoot yourself in the foot as they say. 

LEONIE: But I think if your focus is on quality, you're kind of always going to win out in the end, aren't you? Because you're above a lot of the competition to start with if you have that focus on quality.

ANJA: Definitely. And I think people generally will also, you know, from a talent acquisition point of view, I think people want to work for purposeful businesses. They want to work in a place where they're looked after, where they feel they're being trusted to do their best work.

And so I think it all kind of comes together, focus on quality, but also focus on values. I think it's just, yeah, it's a good mixture to create a good working culture. And it all feeds into each other, because if you give people freedom to do their work in a way that makes most sense to them, they're also going to deliver better work and they're going to stay with you for longer. So, yeah, it's kind of a virtuous circle, I guess. 

LEONIE: It is. And staying with you for longer is such an important thing as well, because people learn on the job. They're continually learning and improving. And so they're more valuable once they've been with you for a few years. They're more valuable than ever. And you really don't want them going anywhere. And if they've got a fantastic job and they feel appreciated, they're not going to go anywhere. 

ANJA: Absolutely. And I was thinking about clients, right? I mean, the amount of expertise and knowledge, product and service knowledge that the writers and translators build up for a particular client and really nailing that tone of voice is so important. So, the retention is actually really important, not just for us as a business, but also for our clients. 

Lost in Translation

LEONIE: So, let's talk about things that get lost in the translation. So, because I know we're sometimes asked to rewrite content that's been translated from German to English because it's completely lost its style in the translation. But more often, we're asked to localise content that's been written in America for the Australian market, because it’s not just about the language, there's so many things that can be different between two countries, even when they speak the same language. So, you do that much more often than we do. In your experience, what else gets lost in the translation if the content is just being translated instead of being properly localised by somebody with the appropriate experience to do that? 

ANJA: Yeah, it's such a good point. I think the main thing that people probably don't appreciate always is that it's not just translating the words on the page, right? You also need to adapt to cultural differences. And we focus on European languages in our work, and you might be tempted to think that Western cultures all basically think the same or behave the same way, but that's not actually true.

There's quite a few differences among even European cultures that are quite notable, and addressing those is really important when it comes to localising content so that it actually performs and does what it needs to do and brings you the return on your investment in that localisation. So, you mentioned American English. We are also sometimes asked to adapt American English for the UK market, as well as translating into European languages.

And, you know, we really need to tone down the enthusiasm and the superlatives, which can just seem over the top and not believable for European market and Australian market as well, I guess. 

LEONIE: Yeah, we're very similar in that, I think. 

ANJA: Yeah, I think there's something about that. But then it's not just about the language either. I think looking at the broader picture, it's also about behaviour, about actually how people go about searching for information and how they buy products, for example. So, German buyers, for example, they're very well known for being hungry for facts and figures.

So, they're looking for quality and they will do quite a bit of research before they buy. So, they might expect to see fact sheets, white papers, you know, social proof, statistics, and maybe certain types of marketing collateral that you actually haven't created for the English-speaking market because it wasn't necessary. But that might actually, you know, the German audience might need more information in order to make that purchase decision.

So, just generally understanding, you know, the cultural differences is hugely important. And for anyone who wants to know more about this, the Hofstede Cultural Dimensions website is a great place to start. Have you heard of that? 

LEONIE: I haven't, no.

ANJA: No, it's a really cool tool. So, it's just a website and you can go on it and you can select two or more countries and compare how they differ across different types of aspects like power distance, uncertainty avoidance, indulgence, individualism. Really, really interesting.

So, I plugged in Australia, France, Germany, and the United States yesterday just in preparation for this call. And quite interesting. So, there was, in terms of indulgence, for example, Australia and United States rank quite highly.

So, there's a high level of indulgence compared to France and Germany, where actually indulgence ranks quite low. 

LEONIE: So, how would you define indulgence? How, what does the indulgence take into account? 

ANJA: So, it says, this dimension is defined as the extent to which people try to control their desires and impulses based on the way they were raised. Relatively weak control is called indulgence and relatively strong control is called restraint.

And interestingly, when I was thinking about that, is that perhaps that means that in America and Australia, there are more spontaneous purchases, more treat yourself, you only live once versus the more restrained, being quite frugal, thinking long term, thinking about your savings. I think it's fascinating. I could play with that tool all day.

LEONIE: I will grab that website address off you later because that would be fascinating. That is definitely true. I think we are a bit indulgent in Australia.

ANJA: The other thing I thought was... 

LEONIE: Sorry, go on. 

ANJA: Sorry, I was going to say just the other example that was quite interesting was the power distance. So, both actually Australia, United States and Germany rank quite low in power distance.

So, this is how, you know, people perceive power to organisations, for example. And in France, power distance is really high. So, I think for me, that means that perhaps in France, people are spoken to more formally rather than, you know, when you think the power is everyone's equal and, you know, Australia, United States, Germany, then there's less formal language.

And it's quite interesting how that relates to language and how we address people in marketing content. So, in Germany, for example, you know, like you have formal and informal you in European languages. So, in French, you have the vous, which is formal and the tu, which is informal.

In German, you have sie, which is formal and du, which is informal. And it's a grammatical thing, but also reflects formality in language. And in German, for example, we're seeing more and more brands gravitating towards the informal you, right? So, people like Apple, you know, kind of brands that want to be cool and young and a bit fashionable might gravitate towards the informal you, but whereas in France, not a thing.

Even very cool brands will still go with the vous, the formal you, and you only really use the informal when you speak to children, for example. So, that's where that power distance comes into play. 

LEONIE: Yeah. And that's really very interesting because that, I have a bit of an odd example of that, in that many, many years ago, I was in the police force for a while, and myself and my partner were showing around a couple of British police officers who came here to take somebody back to the UK. And they were very, very formal, even speaking to each other. And they were absolutely horrified by the way Australian police officers spoke to each other and to their superior officers. They couldn't believe it. They really couldn't believe it. So, I think that's an example because in terms of marketing, it just shows you that if you're, you don't have the right level, it can be seen as disrespectful.

ANJA: Absolutely. Yeah. It can really put people off if you're being overly friendly or overly informal. And I mean, even within a market, I always have this funny example about my dad. So, he's like early 60s, and he walked into an Apple store in Dresden, so a big town in East Germany, and a young guy in his 20s approached him with, hey, how are you doing in the informal you and my dad was so offended. He walked straight back out, which I think is so cute. Like even, you know, within our own cultures, it's quite hard to get these things right sometimes. So, if you're working into other languages that you don't know, it's just so important to have a trusted partner who can guide you in that so you don't put your wrong foot forward. 

LEONIE: Yeah. So, you must have some very funny stories to tell about things that have been lost in the translation or things that have had their meaning substantially changed by an unfortunate translation. Is there an example that sticks in your mind? 

ANJA: I mean, there are a few. There are some quite funny translation fails that you might have heard of that are quite famous. So, one of them is like KFC, you know, Kentucky Fried Chicken mistranslating their finger licking good slogan for the Chinese market as eat your fingers off. 

LEONIE: I hadn’t heard that. 

ANJA: Another one that I came across recently that’s quite sweet is Innocent Drinks. I don't know if you've got those in Australia as well. It's like lots of smoothies and kind of healthy drinks. And when they first went into the French market, they translated their tagline, ‘without preservatives’, very important part of their brand offering. But they translated it as sans preservatives, which in French actually means without condoms.

LEONIE: Which you would hope wouldn’t come with your smoothie. 

ANJA: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, these are kind of interesting errors. But I think sometimes language errors come from ignorance, really.

Like an example of that would be like Ikea, who apparently…they have an Ikea store in Bahrain. And there was a big English slogan outside of the stores that says create your perfect night's sleep. And then it was followed in huge Arabic script by the words, same text, but in Arabic.

LEONIE: Oh, that would be embarrassing. 

ANJA: Right. And what kind of what kind of message does that send? You know, but I think that's down, down to ignorance, really. But another kind of a big one that kind of made the headlines, at least in my world, was back in 2022, when Google Translate, they had this massive conference where they were announcing that their software now worked in a whole lot of new languages. But the phrases that appeared on the big screen on the stage were actually riddled with errors. 

So there was Arabic script appearing on the screen, but it was flipped backwards. And, you know, people were looking and every single language that was displayed, had some sort of errors in it when the language wasn't in Latin or Cyrillic script. So you imagine even Google Translate not getting it right. 

LEONIE: Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, their technology is getting a few things wrong lately, isn't it? 

ANJA: Absolutely. Definitely. And there was one particular example that I hope is not too spicy to share. 

LEONIE: Share away. 

ANJA: So one of our German translators was reviewing a translation that was AI generated recently, and it really made me chuckle. It was basically a product translation for a type of stand, like imagine like a stand for a microphone, for example. And the correct German translation for that is ständer. So quite similar – stand, ständer.

But the thing is, ständer is also a colloquial expression in German for having an erection. And she was reviewing this AI translation. And because, you know, that like everything, all the slogans just read like really, really bad double meanings, you know, so it kind of made us chuckle.

And it's that subtle cultural knowledge that someone might not know if they don't speak languages. Like they flip a button, say, oh, Google Translate…looks German. I'm sure it's fine. And then, you know, before you know it, you've kind of embarrassed yourself a little bit with your German readers, for example.

But like a more sombre example, just to kind of, you know, talk about cultural knowledge that an AI, for example, wouldn't have been trained on this. You take the word leader. And if you, you know, write B2B copy, there's always the word leader in there, the leading company, you know, the leaders in this sector, lead in this industry, etcetera, etcetera. 

Now, the word leader in German is führer. And, you know, historically, that is a term that was used for Hitler. So it's a historically charged term. And when we translate marketing copy, we try and find an alternative, you know, that we might call it a leading expert or leading software rather than the leader to kind of, you know, avoid that kind of connotation. Now, I don't think an AI would necessarily have the cultural sensitivity to know about that. So if you're not careful, things can just slip in that you haven't even thought about if you don't have that language capability.

LEONIE: Yeah. And that's where the quality control comes into it, doesn't it? With the human, the human element. 

ANJA: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Content localisation and artificial Intelligence (AI)

LEONIE: So is the rise of generative AI affecting what you do very much? It's a really interesting question. 

ANJA: And I'm having trouble finding the best way of answering it, because I think the reality is that since COVID…we were like super busy during COVID, you know, everyone went online so there was a lot of content being produced, which then needed to be localised. And since then, since COVID, we've experienced quite a downturn. But I don't think it's just generative AI that's caused that. I don't think it's a single driving factor. 

I personally think it's a combination of both generative AI coming on the market and a global recession having a knock-on effect on marketing spend, for example. So I think, you know, with recession, people are generally more careful and, you know, when budgets are tight, people will often hold off on projects and they look to automation to bring down costs. 

So, you know, we've definitely seen that with some of the very large Fortune 500 companies we translate for that have very mature localisation programs and who are playing around with new technology. And they're moving away from that two-step process that we have traditionally, where you have one translator translating and a second person proofreading to AI translating and a human reviewing that work.

And so we're seeing that at the moment. But to my mind, it's short-term thinking. It's not very strategic. I think right now, people massively overestimate the quality of AI translation, because essentially, it's a, you know, it's a simple word for word translation based on a predictive method of what word should come next. There's no cultural sensitivity, like we talked about, you know, all the things that we mentioned. And AI doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it's not physically embedded in our world or has lived experience. And while it's impressive technologically that it can translate sentences, I think it misses the bigger picture.

And, you know, thinking around the future, I think a lot of translators are very worried right now. You know, probably the same as copywriters are with generative AI, you know, there is that expectation, well, if ChatGPT can just write it, why do we have to pay, you know, hundreds of dollars to, you know, get professional writers to do that? But, you know, I generally am an eternal optimist. But there is a common theme of technology that we tend to overestimate what technology can do in the short term.

So that's the AI hype cycle we're going through right now. But we tend to underestimate what technology can do in the long term. And so that's the thing that worries me a little bit. And I actually, because I'm so worried, and I was kind of, I didn't know what's going to happen in our industry, I am actually in the last stages of an artificial intelligence course with Oxford University, because I'm personally really struggling with making sense of, you know, how AI is affecting us right now, how it will affect us in the future. As the leader of a company, I feel like I need to have a sense and a vision. And I didn't.

So, you know, I really, really struggled with that. So I get some help when I learn more about AI in general, as well as large language models. And so, yeah, that's been really helpful. And particularly, I'm actually quite conflicted about large language models. I'm sure you have similar thoughts around, you know, for one, how the training data was scraped of the entirety of the internet with zero regard for copyright and intellectual property, the huge energy and water consumption. You know, as a B-Corp, particularly, we're committed to looking after people and the planet…so using large language models, in some sense, goes against what we're trying to achieve, right? 

LEONIE: Yeah, I think there are a tremendous amount of issues with AI. I'd say I'm less worried about it now than I was maybe six months ago, having seen more of the output. And it sounds like it's quite similar to the translation scenario, because people, even when they do know, most people don't know how to use the prompts properly. But even those who are fairly good at it, it's still, it doesn't have its own insight.

So you get an article that is just a regurgitation of everything that's online now. And some of it's not necessarily right. So until it can distinguish between what's right and what's not right. And not keep repeating itself. And as you say, there are words that it loves, like leader and beacon and in the end, well, yeah. I think you can’t fix it either, when you, if you get… 

We were asked a few times quite early on, people would send us something that they had put together in ChatGPT, and ask us if we could fix it. And you look at it, and you think, oh, it hasn't done a bad job. But then you look at it a second time. And you think, yeah, no, it's not the right topic. You know, the topic shouldn't be that, the topic should be slightly different than that.

And it should be talking about this. So it's not simply a matter of fixing it, fixing the language and making it a bit more engaging, that sort of thing. It's, yeah, it's, it's much deeper. It's about getting the topics right in the first place. And bringing some personal expertise into the article, which an AI generative AI model at this stage won't ever be able to do because it can't have that experience. 

ANJA: Absolutely. And I also think that why are you creating that content? If you don't have anything new to say, if you don't have anything to differentiate yourself from your competition, why say it? Like, if you've plucked all of that information from the internet, and then regurgitated it out on your website, what's the point? Like, literally, your client can go online and ask GPT the same question. So we're actually just creating content for the sake of creating content rather than creating value for our customers, creating stuff that maybe they can't just find and, you know, by doing a Google search, or ChatGPT search, as it will be in the future. You know, I think that's where we add particular value as companies to our customers.

That's something I think we really need to come back to. And of course, there's also data privacy concerns that, you know, are really important right now for businesses. There's legislation that's coming in that, you know, we'll deal with some of that in the EU, we've got the EU AI Act that's just been approved. So that will kind of we'll see some changes on that side. 

But like, for me, just coming out of this course, there's some very practical things we're going to do at AJT, starting with implementing an AI policy that very clearly lays out our stance on, you know, permissible use of generative AI in our work, but also all of the AI outside of generative AI, just generally all the AI tools we use at the moment, you know, even including things like transcription software for a Zoom call, what happens with that data? If we're having conversations about our client work, confidential information, is that information then fed into a large language training model, like we need to be really clear about that as businesses as well. 

And just to give you an example that it was, I was really taken aback by it just yesterday, one of our lovely freelance translators, Karin, she contacted us and said, Hey, do you know that Slack now uses your data from channels and private direct messages to train their large language model, and that you need to actually physically email them to opt out. Otherwise, it just happens automatically. And I was like, that was definitely news to us, you know, and so immediately email Slack to get opt out. But you know, it's things like that, that will crop up more and more.

So we really want to tighten our own data, data privacy, but it's just one element of AI and generative AI that, you know, I think we haven't got it all sorted yet. 

And I think last year was a massive AI hype cycle. And I think now people are kind of starting to think more about data privacy and the ethical side of things. And I'm hoping that the AI hype will die down, but I'm still not sure yet, long term, what it will do for our professions, for translators and writers as well. And in broader, like education, right? If anyone can create a ChatGPT essay, the educational system will need to change to test pupils in different ways. So it's so far reaching. It is quite overwhelming at times. 

LEONIE: That's a concern that I have too, is if people can get on to an AI tool and create an article that makes them sound like an expert, they actually don't need to have that expertise in order to do it. So it's the potential for scamming people, by using that to create content.

Yeah, there's things we haven't even thought of yet that are going to come up, I think, over the next few years. And the law is so slow to catch up. 

ANJA: Absolutely. And there is obviously that risk that we're all just going to become collectively really stupid because we'll just plug into the matrix when we need information. 

Tip for success on a content localisation project

LEONIE: So I'm going to put up a slide with your contact details, for anyone who'd like to have a chat about a content localisation project. And as we finish up, I've got one more question for you. For marketing managers or CEOs of companies planning to enter the European market, what tips or advice would you give them on managing the extension of their website and marketing related content? Is there anything that often gets overlooked or done badly? 

ANJA: Hmm, really good question. I think my number one advice would be to do your homework. I think marketers tend to do a superb job in their home market. But for some reason, some of that strategic thinking seems to go out of the window when it comes to, you know, another market. And when it comes to international marketing, you can't just copy, paste and go. 

So you can't just replicate what you do in your home market. So do your research, do local language keyword research and competitor analysis to understand your opportunity in the new markets. Get a sense of how that market is different from your home market.

And once you have that information, you can then create a strategy of what content should actually be translated that you've already got, what content needs to be very carefully localised and adapted. And where are the content gaps that you need to fill? You know, we talked earlier about German maybe needing more information before they make a purchase decision. So where do you need to create new content to make sure you effectively engage with your new prospects in that market? And you were asking particularly about things that get overlooked.

I think with regards to website localisation, I think it's actually the SEO element that often gets ignored initially. So marketing managers will rush to translate their content and then six months down the line, they're like, oh, we're not really seeing all that much traffic. Why is that? 

But the beauty with doing your research first, right, your keyword research up front is then you already have that SEO data. So you can bake the SEO optimisation right into your localisation project rather than retrofitting a translation with keywords later. So, you know, in theory, that means that translations will perform better from the start from an SEO perspective and help drive traffic to your localised site. So you'll save time and money in the long run, really. 

But from a technical perspective, I think there's a few things to think about, again, with your strategic hat on. 

Let's say you're using an off the shelf translation plugin for your website that will automatically translate your content in an instant, which obviously seems super convenient, very cost effective. Might be WordPress where you have the WPML plugin or you have a Shopify website where you have the WeCloud plugin, loads of different tools available. But the thing to remember is those translations, if they're automated, might be wrong because it's a machine that essentially created them. 

So you must make sure you always have someone who can check those translations that were automatically created But also bear in mind that those translations won't be optimised for SEO, so they might not be very effective.

LEONIE: And it can be quite costly if you don't get it right. Not only the time and money you have to pay to get it done again, but it's the revenue that you lose in between when you do it and when you realise that you haven't done it properly. 

ANJA: Yeah, and a bad translation is actually worse than not having any translation at all. So I think that's really something to bear in mind. 

And the last thing I'll maybe just mention here is to think about scalability as well. So if you're planning long term that you'll have a fairly large amount of content to translate on a regular basis, then having a translation memory function is super important because essentially that will help you store all of your previous translations and ensure that you're not paying for the same translation twice.

So especially if you're regularly tweaking content to optimise it or slightly change your product descriptions, then you don't want to have to have like a 300 word product description that's very similar and pay for it full price every time. So translation memory is really something that will help you save money in the long run. And as a translation company, we work with professional translation tools. So we automatically create translation memories for all of our clients. But with a web plugin, you don't necessarily have that functionality. 

So coming back to that strategy piece, it's really good to think about how often you will have new content, you know, and how often will you update it. And so then build your tool stack for translation around your strategy as well. 

LEONIE: OK, there's some really fantastic tips in there for anyone who's planning some translations. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your thoughts.

So there you go. If you're expanding into Europe and you need someone to oversee the translation and localisation of your content, get in touch with Anja. And if you're in the USA and you need content localised for the Australian market, please reach out to me at Article Writers Australia. And I will pop Anna's contact details up now and see you in the next episode.